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"2016-12-05 01:33:35"
Accessibility: Making Games for All Gamers - PlayStation Experience 2016: Panel Discussion
\\good afternoon everybody Anto welcome to the afternoon of day 2 of PSX I'm I'm soon to be on stage to to tell you how how important this next panel is ... to our community to our our business to our life to what we do as as places again ... we're very honored here today have a panel of accessibility experts to talk to us about how do we did you make games more available ... more accessible to gamers ... in every walk of life amaze you seen today expects but in the 2 days with us here in the community ... we are a diverse bunch the PlayStation nation we come from many different places we have many different skills and abilities ... welcome together with a left place a seller for gaming of the panel here today to talk about some of this is that there under way they have under way that they're working on it or to continue to make gaming as inclusive as possible the ideal is every gaming she'll have all the different gaming experiences though can possibly bring to them and that's why there's such an important thing for us sporting for PlayStation is support for all of us here ... we really want to be leaders in this field and thank you all for coming today is to be super interesting again we have the honor of a him steam panel to talk on the subject so without further ado I give you Ian Hamilton in this article the panel who who say my name is in the home in excess witty specialist on on you to be your mother except that I and also with the mistakes I have mark and Tara and Josh and Alex we're gonna get to the proper introductions and little bit the first off I'm gonna give you a little explanation about what it is we're gonna talk about today success ability the festival to explain about war accessibility has I'm first going to talk a little bit about what disability itself actually is after that I got this guy here tell me this photo was taken from an investigation that was done for a newspaper and the UK and as I'm sure from looking at this picture many people watching may be able to have some kind of a gas I would it is that's making this guy disables he might be thinking perhaps that he has star will pose a in which case you would be correct in the have several pose a however several policy is not actually this ability his medical condition and that's a really important distinction to make so what else could it be them so again you might be thinking these in the wheelchair and of course he is in a wheelchair that wheelchair will say is no disability the piece of assistive technology like a paragraph says is that she was helping him get about his plans that I the thing is getting in the way of his plans that I is when he went to meet his friends in this restaurant and the encounter the steps and that's what this ability actually is it's a mismatch between the person and the surroundings when someone's empowerment comes up against some kind of a barrier resulting in difficulty performing at the ice they tossed I need Barry is whether it is a flight of stairs or a shelf that's too high or reading green seems the deathmatch or fix control scheme this kind of parents often put there by someone else net often designs this is also the flip side to that no we can never really remove all barriers incapable of disability but by being laughed the kinds of barriers that people can face you can actually figure out which various unnecessary and avoidable under made them and prevent disabling situation Smith like this from occurring and the straight forward to do as well means particularly in game development almost almost every barrier that even cancer in games can be addressed by one of 2 techniques either by communicating information in more than my my say for example subtitles as with a speech leasing symbol as well as a color and the other methods is just offering a bit of flexibility in the way people experience again it's offering some options some choice that for example a choice a difficulty levels the choice of control with setups S. important stuff as well as important for all kinds of reasons which you can hear some of it a little bit in particular it's important because before this but these are market a big market so I mean the official government statistics in the USA is somewhere around 18 percent of the population and that's I mean the willful was on the traditional definitions as well it doesn't include 8 colorblindness effects apes and the mails difficulty reading which affects 14 percent of adults so whichever way you look at this big big numbers of people this is big numbers that developers aren't the one I miss out on the business from also numbers that developers aren't gonna want to have missing out on experiencing their vision it's also important for the human race and for the benefit the gangs can bring back sister socializing so recreation subculture it's because it's so important it's been really nice to say in the past 3 years in particular things progressing the industry advancing and it's been love give people a B. my can fight hard to bring this practice about which brings me nicely on say a panel sung us finally he can introduce ourselves say if we start with them and it seemed like you a back say if you saw us and he won't away from and ... say it it's all the links as well why accessibility matters to you personally share and so I am Alexander any on a key ... I'm a U. I. designer added a nice dog ... in its during the production of uncharted 4 ... Josh brought here reached out to me um C. mailed me and to ask if we could talk about ... accessibility in games and admittedly in the 9 years that I've worked in games it wasn't a thing that I had put a lot of thought into I hadn't really didn't know much about it ... and so then once he reached out to me and I started speaking to him Justin knows like few conversations ... see how difficult something that seems so simple to me was for some people it could prevent them entirely from playing a game ... as a person works on games I was like okay well you know as a developer you want everybody to be able to enjoy your game so that kind of became a big part of the motivator for meat said it to continue to work on games is to make sure that everybody can play numbers many people as possible to get to enjoy them them Sonya I just saw arm Josh stronger Moore and her own chief of duggars were a website that provides journalistic own views and previews regards the visible ability and I freely through the company because losers vote he stinks you know unknown over them you know the meanings of this vote ruling is so far several so but the only and the only way to our full can get all the scoop from a is through video games own even if you're not because it would you still get this Omana combo of escapism ... from your disability and are you in the Senate I said go to green accompanying that took a journalistic spin on the issue of focused on educating the consumer inform that I'm going to devote consulting practice ... where I whom solid movers and hope you know how to make the games more accessible so let's move on to hello I am terra I'm a project manager at that guy the makers of PlayStation now now available with PC client for you to download us sorry ... so I got in to give accessibility after a teacher of mine from college introduced me to it and it for me was something that I very much related to ... as a child I was in a pretty severe car accident ands I got a taste of what it was like to not be able to play games all the time but for me and I you know I got better of I I have everything now but for some people that's not the case someone coming from a military family like I you know I've seen my cousin come from home and have injuries in like that's just a part of life's not all of us are always gonna be able to play games their currency and you know beyond being a game developer as a gamer I love games games are a huge part of my life and I want everyone to be able to play games and enjoy them as much as I do so anything I could do to educate people to tell other developers what they could do you give them resources like I wanted to do that because I want to play games I mean it it's almost Elvis like as I age I would be able to still be able to play games and accessibility is the way I know I can gain for forever so everybody my name is mark parlay I'm I'm the founder and executive director of the able gamers charity ... so get accessibility Israel really important to me because all I'm a service disabled veteran I never really my disability never affected the way I played with my military career brought some really amazing friends together and my best friend actually married my bunk mate from the military we used to use video games at every Friday night I'm gonna age myself a little bit we use to log on and play everquest ... sorry and ... one Friday I got on Ventrilo I actually don't remember what we used back then ... sticks and cups N. dumb my friend didn't logon and so I waited a few minutes and then I picked up the phone and I called her N. in 2001 she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and in 2004 that night immense decided that her mousing hand wasn't going to work and that she refused to play because this was important to her and she was crying because she loved everquest and she loved her character so that night instead of spending time playing I spent time looking for stuff to help her we were Yahoo wing because Google hadn't been invented yet and we didn't really find anything so we kind of took that as a calling that maybe this is something that we should do so we founded this little website so that other people with disabilities could come to join in and share their stories and it just kind of blossomed to us being on the stage right now if I mean he insists Oakland's reason by simple and and that's as mentioning it's been recognized this progress being made to take in the last couple years has been ... cons and I stuff room platforms individual developers industry buddies so just wondering if you could share this and his mean anything in particular that stuck out here in the past couple years surcharge on the king of so it's really exciting to watch excessive billing in the past couple years in particular ... we've seen huge gains in particularly like both the PlayStation and the Xbox 1 a launched accessibility features at a system level which if you had asked me you know even 34 years ago that would ever happen like I don't know that I would have said yes I would know of yeah I mean it so seeing that come along and then was it was amazing and then even from that we're having were having discussions were here and I was super excited of course titles ever thought like I've tried to push like that stuff out there by I I I mean I was so excited when I saw the work that you guys did on a target like I saw the videos and first I was jealous that I didn't have a video like that but then I was I was so excited that there was a huge undertaking ahead a whole new media push it was all over my Twitter there is public on article there is a game informer article in the fact that we're having these discussions in that there's awareness being brought was gritty and like I said I was a huge fan of uncharted because people well and heard it was the first game to actually use the word accessibility and an option panel that we do even that is something I could never have imagined just a couple of years ago and if you tell me a month before you guys said that I don't know that I would have learned through the eye of 2 you wanted to make it a point in the game because all other times if your use ... ordered fill our exes of looting features Indians were buried in tours are different vision menus you know control invest with engine is buried on game play difficult in my room ... and sometimes when we buried in the article was that to cigarettes so I really tried to push through to that was standardized the other thing a truly great I I would argue with this pedal is the greatest virtual in living rooms is voting ever since movement started because I fear was saying you know 6 years ago you couldn't buy a developer to make room sensible or you don't have anything good just wouldn't do it but now we're sitting here having this discussion was at the behest of one of the biggest names in here and this is going to drive the industry forward because they see the song you sing incidentally hopefully under voters will well yeah yeah I think even even just going back to years ago means ending in 2014 that if the game includes it's a single accessibility features that would be from page no we celebrated that I mean oh my gosh there's color blind mode DC that were amazing whereas now if you watch a game is not colorblind friendly like you're making front page news but that's the other reason they're like how could you not do this so it's nice to see like as we're progressing forward this basic accessibility stuff like players are expecting it I and it's really nice to see that people are kind of they're looking for it now and people realize that sometimes the mistake when you leave them out yeah I think it's I mean the items that can be seen in last aiming talking about excess but the many eyes the seeing games that you now have a cruel it's way the features newsletter sign a positive thing for yeah I think in the last couple of years I mean I'm I'm not surprised when I see an accessibility feature in a game anymore wall 2 years ago you know minus the color blind stuff anyone that had some kind of like specific accessibility future I would kind of celebrate now I'm gonna I'm with you like what why don't you have that everyone else does that's kind of the take that a lot of developers have as well like when we are working on these things the thing that comes up a lot from my fellow from teammates is while I and we have this already Ehrlich why haven't we been talking about these types of things before ... and so the stance from does has been my experience so far been very like of course like we should have this this is a given phone so I think that the community at large and developers that have are taking that stance as well want talk to a developer one time and he told me something was really profound to me he was adding some accessibility features into his game and ice and any acid will wire you putting this much effort into it because it's just curious to me as to why he goes why spend a lot of money telling an amazing story with some great gameplay and I want every person who possibly can to enjoy this hard work that I put into it and I'm like that's the right attitude I just I am a storyteller and I want people to enjoy my story yeah I think everyone wants to see other people enjoying their hard work and it will even last night at dinner we went out you were talking about how when you when you hear a fan of the game that you work on your like so excited to hear yeah it's I mean there's there's nothing more for filling as a game developer than someone coming up and telling you they love your product but there's even something more profound when of all because I was talking about my few good file I have a file where basically any time I've I've heard accessibility feature and it goes live if I get positive feedback I put it in this file ... so that it kind of fuels me to keep fighting for saw so even if maybe I don't win this battle I can go back and look at this file and so on so be like well I didn't get to play this game but I had read up will control so I didn't I love daylight it's like I I hope to this person please game that I worked on and they got to see what I worked on and they loved it and like it just fuels me to keep doing more right thing than mine says well is something this specific the gangs of element summing from compared to working across the work must be different industries and they seem to be a lot more people working the games industry her kind of in it for the right reasons right in there if people are there for the megabucks ID like in the bank assuming the same any people a comparison he work in the games industry is doing it because I passionately believe in their vision of one that's we experienced by as many people as possible say well there are these not so well and I think we love when people love our art yet the opposite of that is when somebody reaches out and says that they couldn't do something because of some design flaw our choice that we made and that that was what happened with Josh and when Josh reached out and said that he couldn't finish uncharted to you on his own ... because of it button problem ... but match sequence that was devastating to anybody I told that to you on the team I wasn't on uncharted to you but when I talk to Bruce about it and the elderly dang like that socks that somebody didn't get to experience the end of our game ... because of something like that so it that goes both ways ... and somebody reaches out with positive it's like awesome and somebody reaches out with good feedback like that it it puts in you this is like all wanna solve that problem I'm gonna figure out how to fix that for next time what would be the the reality is every person in this room is going to lose their physical ability of the age nobody wants to stop gaming of the good old so even if you don't get a fair trial because the ruling the day you're gonna fit could someone even if it's just for the 3 rooms for his room busting your own doings of was still good everybody will benefit from well to that point one of the road one of the things we did as an organization a couple of years ago because we were really having a hard time getting developers to understand if we wrote this really strong white paper on how would your grandma player game because we kind of equated their grandmother and the and the you know the loss of things that happen as we age as well what kind of features would you include in your game to make sure she could continue to enjoy it and a lot of developers kinda said all my gosh you kind of created a straw man for me that I understand because I love my grandma yeah and I would love my grandma to play my games but if you're going if he was going with many games I mean with with progressing might work when that point that we have been before but it's still a white guy say just US servicemen welcome to stuff the things we gonna feature well my big then rule is education I always think we need more addicted when the US could develop into why aren't more games may sensible reasonable because we just don't know how to so I hope to one day work my Somali withdrawal I hope to the one that every studio how does a person whose job it is to examine soon you'll from the to examine the big social growing product from concept all lose and then the other side of this new here though counterpoint to and from work but I do believe that at some point in the future we can start including some level of excessive volume shin on the back of a box even if his sister so even if it's just we still own pool that means that the house needs a certain reasonable standard for the disabled community because yeah through 10 or 5 mo's needed features I don't think then we came home over rudely informed own populace and then we'll talk through this convo with their wallets not clergy skins that are not accessible and I'm gonna slightly disagree I agree that we should have accessibility games I would be on this panel what I don't believe that you can do is put on the back of the box because everything is accessible to somebody and so having like a rating system who is the person that's going to be the one that we rate that on because I can I know I know 10 people with muscular dystrophy and all 10 of them are looking for different accessibility features so what I'm really hoping that we do is we create these options in these guidelines which you guys are doing already that allow everyone to come to tailor the experience to their needs because you don't really necessarily know so I don't think it can be boiled down to like a a seal of approval because I can show you a game that is incredibly accessible and I can me I can introduce you to somebody who can't play it and so that's where I'm really just concerned with the back of the box what I would really like to see is a fact sheet that comes out on every game and maybe a unified website that has the like a fact sheet or a checklist because I just don't think it's a single number I agree with your vision I just don't think it's a symbol what I think it is is because accessibility is hard it has to be just a little bit more than just a button but I think I'll break it down the thing is seen precedence for around something kind of in between brother industries act like you pick up a DVD or blu-ray the tie in the back with us the subtitles presenting a real estate on a box on wondering if you know I think there's I think there's space in some of even like the platform distribution level like if you go on steam right now they'd you can search for just games that have closed captions well what if you know you already need remap all controls you know maybe that we just put those are things you can filter on maybe you go to your digital download store and you know that you need to have a game that will someone has more than just that they've actually started doing that so depending on you can check different features that they have an accessibility you know it's interesting that you use the word faction because if you aren't a look of the US are brewing 4 on each he threw out his own drug since and what we do is a rerun of the room systems are fundamentally overturns a big but it does give consumers a tool they think that they can look they can understand what I have already wouldn't feel their hose Drexel to the right who's to do more information moving so that they can vote him purchase again were not present based on what they feel is appropriate it's the same reason 2 movies can both be overrated for vastly different reasons but I can feel comfortable taking the underrated person than the one from none to lower given its consumer what's appropriate for the consumer 7 a difference of again the other things you think might be useful for the industry to make holes in the future right and me yep sure Tareq sigh my head this is not working so I can't actually hear you could probably be bored replied writing the sites and the other things we think might be useful for the industry to move towards the future ... from the developer perspective I'm just in Germany if anything my house maybe says with the feather for them is that I ... I think the biggest thing right now that's missing for most of teams as far as like implementing on the stuff and actually putting it into their games is understanding of how much time it takes when in the pipeline they need to start doing it which is very very early on ... I'm just sort of had the having access to the type of information that your organization and that Josh and has put out there already for for developers ... timing is the biggest one like yes yeah yeah I have this you see there's this thing you hear something and you're like oh yeah we can do that that's a thing we can do you there's a very big difference between acknowledging that the thing you can do and actively doing it acts of leading the time Dev cycles 3 to 4 years some games longer than that and so much happens in that time ... you know problems arise schedule conflicts at your producer is all about the feeling conflicts that can happen ... is and those things can very easily be forgotten they can very easily be pushed and it's not an issue of people not caring which is an issue of we have these kind of structured setups for creating games ... that have you know been put into place over years ... and so for us the big part of it I don't think I could have done it on my own I had 1000000 shots ... also championing it so that was a designer and you why Amelia managed to get it programmers onboard like sandy xikar I believe was the programmer who helped her implement early on and she was just doing it she was just implementing things how much I know it's not possible in all development companies but com getting people onboard understanding that it has to start happening early it's a conversation that can't happen once you need to like anything like you I like like any other part of games it has to be checked up on how set deadlines and you don't meet those marks at every point and I think that's a big part of it is people just talk about it but I think to Josh's point having someone within the organization that's an accessibility specialist even if it's at a studio level or multi studio level would that would be one of their jobs is to kind of make sure that these features don't get lost in the backlog so to speak well I don't know that someone someone outside of the studio level is and I have enough the vision to the data they probably like if there's a mobile studio like if if like Sony and have one person that has that up even then like you're gonna have to have like if you could get it I would recommend like finding a lead or a producer or manager who's going to be in that studio shaping the features and like I what she was saying like you have to do if we getting I've the number one lesson I've been teaching developers is game accessibility is easy when you started day one veterans of 2 weeks before release it retrofitting it can merely be impossible there been titles I worked on where you know we finally convinced the right people yup we should do this while we're starting the slate and then dug into the code and looked at the systems and we're like dear god this is a rat's nest word never it we would have to rewrite all of this meal to get this accessibility feature in but if we had known about that history ahead of time it would've been very easy it's the same way like if you know you're not gonna code something this way because it will cause problems for other system you still call it that way you cut it a different way but we'd basically engineered ourselves into a hole where we couldn't put the accessibility features and because it was too late but if you know from day one sneer schedule from day one if you have a manager a lead a producer a pro program manager of product manager like making sure it's on the schedule it doesn't blow your scope it does it and it makes for a better product because I think one of the things that everyone has always seen is when you put these features in big your core player base is going to use them and like them to like everyone is up like things that a lot of the stuff is like niche and that's that's not true a lot of other gamers they can use this suit to question to you though I mean what about the tools gonna you've been working a lot with trying to kind of build some accessibility features into like Vic game making tools yeah the engines the thing that's that's a really good point the middle where the tools that PVC develop gangs with that's a real real area look she needs a traditionally is going to be a bit of a popular but they can be so much it's not because we are actually starting to see those tools the people are thinking about sex with him now so ... unreal engine I'm a legend is now go ... built in color blind simulates it developed its knees protesting the games ... unity unity currently working on engine level but semi mapping say that if people become physically beat some of the controls you can reconfigure them to see red specific names of Cecil full game as he just died like that design is choice of control scheme right Mecca thing behind the engine that will take a look a thing that's right about having a second stuff was don't seem any is there any I know any any small steps but they are steps in the right direction haven't been taking riffles having this nice potential new I'd really like to say about anything else is full of blind games say if yeah if you didn't South Pacific Barrett as those in though developed as a really really wanted to do the stuff on accessibility but the tools they're using then that's you allow them to say that expires the interface in a way that the software that blind people use to access a computer and understands so I don't know me whack is that suffer with pick up the text of the interface and speak out different develops but if you just type things correctly adjust lacks that isn't currently possible unless you do a game that's a place that's I'd really really love to see some very well there's there's a great Kickstarter from a cut a little sis set of I think they were all friends in school that are starting a platform for building using them again from New Zealand they're building a platform for building games ... better completely blind friendly and I think the the well well I know that we made sure as an organization ... too that they were going to be funded so when they were closely like push the way over the edge and then they're now taking that and pushing that to make more and more games I think they're going to come out with like 3 or 4 titles from the very beginning but what they're doing is they're wanting to make it easy so that other people can make titles for that and I think that's one of the things that's really great is the indie developers and like these platforms like the mobile phones in the iPad's in those types of things have allowed some really creative things to be made but the cost of entry is so low compared to a big triple a title that they can kind of focus and then I think the other advantage for people with disabilities in the gaming spaces they're all competing for eyeballs I mean there's so much content being made every day that a lot of like small studios of blues used accessibility as a differentiator in the market which is like pushed us even further that I think will ever really truly now yeah I think I see the lowest long game is in particular there because it's such an on the set of mark in this century alright number games available that when getting dusk amount is really gets a bum this bias comply they jump on it yet any see that in the day to the states are in the money they make him as well I think that one of the other things ... sort of that plane that will help developers even triple a developers ... some of the stuff that Josh had set up at his boots like the the thing that simulates glaucoma I believe it is which of course is not full blindness so it's a little bit different but just having access to that as a developer just having those simulations ... is incredible like some of my coworkers were here we were all trying them on you actually gave an up to a bunch of us at a table ... and so my co workers of me there the technical art directors were there and instantly they're coming up with solutions there like all I can think of is how I know things we can do for the us or with the with putting on that simulator for glaucoma it's like I can think of like 10 things that we could try it but it's just a matter of having access to that like it with the developers to actually have a way to simulate it like that ... would provide a crazy amount of like insight ... in you those problem solving abilities that we all have that we got hired for in the first place they just are kicking in and you just want to try to solve the problem on so I think with all of those issues that is a huge huge thing that will help further all of this furtively as we can take this up as a M. colorblind the simulator is loads of existence month things just typing called on the simulator and it just that he let you 3 C. C. 3 color blind eyes any sale and it is always the same thing he said to develop a to see the light bulb ping on above the head yeah on a game if I just out of the symbol you know that yeah so I'm wondering if there's a way to get you for any of them ... to have that those sorts of tools available to death in mobile casual tripling all of it ... either in the studio or have somebody go around to the studios to sort of provide that service it instantly makes you start thinking of ways to solve it on because without having that experience about living those experiences it's very difficult to try to come up with a solution to a problem that you don't fully understand and I think kind of piggy backing off of that like a lot of times I've always told people that I don't think dad's purposely set out to make it accessible games most of the time that the game comes out and it's an acceptable it's that that they didn't know better ... I get told all the time all I wouldn't have known about that unless you told me or all I'm aware of that but it's because I either know someone or directly affects me but a lot of times they just don't understand the problem and but they are problem solvers scheme dads are problem solvers and so once they see the problem they can work on trying to fix it but they don't know the probably don't understand the problem so to add to that I have a really interesting story there was a big game and we were talking to the lead developer and we had mentioned to them that you know you have this really big colorblind issue and the and the this lead developer of this major game goes yeah I know I'm color blind and I actually can't play this game very well and I civil why don't you fix it angles it never dawned on me that it would would want me to and I was just kinda like the fifth week what's it is like yeah I mean I thought it was just me and like no and I gave him the statistics in this book we should probably do something about the deficit Frank because it was in the room every day looking at the art and he never really said something but the same time actually have a story of another developer who is color blind who didn't say anything to his to his team and he was rejecting art piece after art is going I don't I don't like this I don't into in about the fifth iteration one of his developer said are you colorblind because yes fight him thank you you can do it now doesn't look forward to the next piece of concept art he was like love it let's go with it Moroccan so well it's really interesting once people start ... learning so I worked on it of balls it would it launched it had some pretty serious talent like issues and we incident implementing a color blind mode and basically we found out because of how we structure it there were ... indeed the facts that were like read it over Greengrass's use concede up and so we had to go in like redo these effects we ended up creating 4 versions of its a fact that would loaded based on what you say it was a weird obviously retrofit system but going forward our visual effects designer Lindsey who was awesome she was super where the end is is she saw in concept art she knew that if like outlook they problem like 8 Dingell pass that like she'd send it back and we did have to make 4 versions of everything again because she knew it she knew of what we're looking for just didn't go far enough for to become problem anywhere I think it's rather pointless thing about them the best thing that when I speak up benefits in the stuff myself as well and it seems like that's changing so I think it was a ... to testify that he ... exactly that he did wonder what to buy even be the one person the greatness and make changes to me Lee said now actually as things being a fun thing as as more public dialogue about accessibility he now feels comfortable having these conversations as soon as it starts getting talked about at all in the in the development environment as well everybody starts to get onboard kind of on their own and people it just sort of happens naturally like as this dialogue has you know Galpin going on internally all everyone's on like there's nobody that but you know he's in down to do it and more and more programmers comment they just are actively thinking about it on their own now so it really doesn't take like it at first maybe not everyone's going to be on board but it doesn't that should be discouraging to a development team like if they can just get a few people that are like with them to start implementing start trying things out and slowly will not that silicon happen pretty quickly like everybody kind of gets on board and is willing and just thinking about it on their own as we were growing we're going with this about times they have to go to the last topic and here it's stuff that's enough money service we've had a lot of al and things are being done and that's about the level of life from that was that but the people watching by fair an online I games say what can games they don't have meetings with so you don't we are gamers first where gamers with disabilities arm and I always true till developers because we always hear people say well if I make a game for that they have a lot of accessibility features like it won't be fun or it will be hard we always say that that's not true you know I would rather a game be made that pushes the industry and pushes the technology that I can't play then not see that game made at all a man a so so sure you made the most amazing game in the world that I can't play but I know that what you did that foundation will be built on to make the next game that I can play and I think that's a really important thing that all gamers with disabilities understand no longer wants to push about a dozen homes in civilian fervor groups also correct and so I think that if I were a gamer out there and it's this really resonates with you and if you're not a person of disabilities still advocate for for accessibility understand that people with disabilities are trying to take your game away they're not trying to make it up easy game we just looking for options so that we can tailor the game to play the way that we need it to be it might not be your way that's okay we just want options and I think that the other thing is look to which is a huge thing so people also enjoy watching games so I know a lot of people with disabilities who can't play a game what they really want that title to be a thing so what they do is they actually ... experts in it by watching other people play it for them and I think so so we are gamers first and we really love this part of our our lives the elixir minutes from a developer's perspective would you like to see from games ... from game sorry I stimulate from gamers yes he welcomes about who was the truth about his protective looking game is the to help me make sense with the for sale it's working if neither of Abd al and the difference it makes to and getting stories in and look at the Ritz people have to get in touch that kind of thing oh yes ... so it we've talked about this a few times but like getting feedback from people it's I know sometimes you like feel when you're tweeting their messaging ... a company that is to sort of like going out to the void in like nobody is responding to you but we do see it like everybody you know what when you treat those things are when you email somebody is seeing it ... oftentimes a respond NBA's lot of reasons but ... so I think that's a really important thing if you tweeted developers but think about the games you care about to sell them like in the something that I care about ... we do see it when it does affect you positively or negatively ... an email like email the developer directly ... we find emails from people positive stuff that's been very uplifting that's made us think like while at school on Leo I want to do more of this ... and I'm like when Josh emailed me ... with kind of these feedback this criticism we took a very personally obviously that was like the basis for a lot of what we did so on that's the main thing that I think they can do when interacting with developers ... and even if you're not a person that ... has disabilities if this is something that you feel strongly about that you'd like to see included add your voice to that it's not gonna you know you're only helping people ... by contributing your voice ... and you're making the community better as a whole so they're going this way there is a beautiful thing to see over the years I mean set me I'm thinking about you know 67 years ago if someone was talking about excess but it's usually on the form for a game that beat a lot of vitriol has been nice to see the complete 10 rounds and not now people expect and stuff as much as of support again grandma say it's not what you say it's how you say it yeah no thing dealers you can remind us is that it's not a one sided street there is there is a certain amount of responsibility they have to make sure realistic since moving own if you need a good boy who was a Hong Kong flu could hear input device regards foods each juror responsibilities that the road because of the vote for kit league games others at the moment what they can do is they can make him so don't hinder you when news otherwise them so good they gave them what they need to do is educate and the same way about how it's going so I'm there just one thing the left which is if you wanna carry the conversation all of us let's talk about this kind of stuff say his I. details can touch so without a sense I think he saw panelists month or just another ex and it'll say thank you PlayStation thank you yeah //

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