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"2017-08-24 16:42:53"
If the Only Way You can Feel Safe is to Suppress Others, You're Very Unsafe Indeed
\\alright everyone we do see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel arity alluded to this ... yesterday that parts of the media concluding the legacy media are now calling into question whether it's really a good idea to begin censoring suppressing people of business insider was honestly have finally enough the first saying all well I don't think that trying to suppress fringe groups will actually work and censoring them probably won't work either well no shit ... I pointed that out many months ago others did too nobody took us seriously unless they were our fans ... and now open lo and behold all of the so called experts the Talking Heads with their fucking hair plug wigs are talking about the same thing well I wonder where they got that idea from the probably got it from some random youtuber they stumbled across and now we have buzzfeed buzzfeed of all groups joining the chorus of saying ... not so sure that ... censoring and you know extremist so called ideologies is the greatest idea I think it might make the problem worse again no shit that's exactly what it will do and you were warned of this and you gobble down the propaganda for awhile and made the situation worse because the violence in the process there are much of what's happening right now is the responsibility of the legacy media of all other groups but I'd like to point something out that is whatever society structures itself around all citizens eventually have a part in the idea that you can enable heavy handed tach or government censorship and yourself escape from being censored at sometime is totally completely wrong it's totally laughable because that's never been the case throughout human history look the road to hell is paved with good intentions a person's intent the part of the lame streams sort of boring ass establishment they say well it's just a little bit of censorship we're just going to censor people with violent ideologies okay who determines what ideologies are inherently violent well at first they're gonna Amos specifically people that are openly proclaiming violence well now that's probably fine okay those are extremely small you're gonna make a more fanatic drive them underground into their echo chambers where they can start plotting ... destruction instead of being exposed to public discourse that largely disagrees with them so you've just made them more fanatic and may be given them ... away to grow is they become taboo and exciting and of course the legacy media click baby is it is reports on these things and all of a sudden millions of people that didn't know about some some ... into fo website or something a white supremacist website all the sudden they know that it exists they go there maybe they get indoctrinated well they never would have encountered that before thanks legacy media that's really wonderful you just gave rise to a bunch more people who are like way out there and those who live in those fringe groups we'll get more fringe because you're still suppressing them that is there's nothing there to moderate them to kid to keep them nonviolent okay they're out there but they're not being violent now all of a sudden there's nothing to keep them from becoming violent and even more fanatic well you just because that problem legacy media that's your responsibility and you're the ones that were encouraging this now they're singing a slightly different tune the idea that you are capable of limiting censorship when you've been able to group to censor it will be aimed at everybody because there will be certain things that no person can say it doesn't matter whether you are a liberal a conservative or whether you're more out there on some fringe it doesn't matter whether your men are just like I am or a really really out there and cap who think smash the state and and you know sort of art deco forever it doesn't really matter because everybody is subject to the same censorship you have equal misery under the law at that point if however this is IT structures itself around liberty new year's the easy solution to all of our problems with both the fringe groups that people are so worried about in there smaller than they all suspect it's like shark week all the sharks in now the sharks to lead a couple people every year not a big problem you think of it as a big problem ... because you've been told it is by the ... propagandists in the media and the opportunists within government certain social groups that tell you the problems 10000 times worse than you and then actual reality suggests if however you structure your society around liberty and freedom you don't have these problems you don't have the censorship problem nobody's being censored you always have a moderating force on any fringe group that crops up and people who are given over to liberty who have adopted that is their primary national value and social value will probably if they're taking that concept seriously never join such infringing that I could become an arco communist because it's so it's a foreign concept they're not going to become lie like a total ethno nationalist because they've got a totally different social model that they themselves have degree and all you have to do is probably pretty but that requires that these tech firms be responsible it requires that the media be responsible which is is a laugh it's a good thing that the legacy media's dying off is the all medias far better on this token this sooner that they it cancel your newspaper subscriptions cancel your cable service stop watching fox stopped watching CNN don't even go to legacy media websites like salon being liberal bright bar drudge they're all the same okay maybe Tucker Carlson's funny once in awhile who cares he's still a propagandist maybe Matt drudge is more forthright than than some other random random ... journalistic figure doesn't matter this still propaganda there that's what you get there I'm sorry that's what you get you have a big multimillion dollar entity that date that takes address the new you think they're not being controlled at least to some extent like those people that are funding them they're giving the money of course they are so way websites work to why you think I spurned ad revenue ... and business contracts new should spurn them yet so easy way to get money it's also an easy way to become reliant upon a third parties and they did that continuously fun you know all you would get a good we got no money back for funding this personal fund the more and a little bit more and pretty soon yeah you're making millions of dollars you're also being totally controlled by other people that's the problem all are all independent media figures and analysts and people who just give their opinions on you tube or some some blog you should crowdfund keep your independence it'll be worth a lot more in the future than it is right now and as the paradigm continues to shift there will be those that are more respected than others because of the models that they've employed that's another prediction for you but engaging in censorship my goodness what a terrible idea I can't think of anything more anathema to the founding spirit of the country I still and said this still I've heard from libertarian sailing out but you know it's a tech firm their private entity they're allowed to tell you what you can get outside of the home can okay legal yeah maybe they're entitled to do that I think we should strip them of that legal entitlement through a constitutional amendment by the way because human communication now rely so solidly on the internet that it's too important not to protect with the first and fourth I explicitly I think tech firms in so far as their coordinating human ... interaction in that way should be subject to the same constitutional model and it's not by the way unlawful to do that in past whatever constitutional amendment you want is nothing anyone can do about it if it passes it becomes illegal it is declared illegal unilaterally ... by an amendment existing on that token okay maybe it's illegally ... something they can do is it a good idea there's a big difference between what you can do and what you should do I can go around in a lightning storm carrying a metal rod over my head I can do that I can slather myself with stakes and go swimming you know in the shark infested waters or out I I can go up hope the bear literally with a a nice big sirloin hanging around my neck I can do all of these things are they good ideas near probably not I can I can dose myself up to the eyeballs on still legal research chemicals anytime I want is that a good idea yeah I don't think so I can go out in the middle of the night and the worst part of any big city full of a gang members and I can specifically and explicitly wear the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood I can do that I'm legally entitled to wear red in the Crips zone I'm legally entitled to walk up to a group of bloods wearing all blue and and flashing gang signs it's perfectly legal to do that it's not a great idea to do that though yeah yeah it's it's too it's just there's a difference between these 2 things why isn't anybody else talking about that fact yeah you can legally have ... tech censorship of human opinion on the largest ... the job platform of human communication which is the internet I mean you now that is a good idea no it's not a good idea we should avoid it and when people are sitting there saying oh well the deed of defending the tech firms all their legally entitled that's not the point you should be arguing against it anyway on principle because it's a shitty idea shitty ideas should be called out a shitty that's the way things should work if we I had more criticism to levy a groups and stop blogging ourselves down over what was or was not legal maybe we'd be a better society maybe would be more free maybe with the more prosperous I think but the engine of the economy being so reliant upon that form of human communication is also too important not to protect that level there are rumblings now within our government of regulating the online world is a public utility I completely oppose this these firms should protect themselves by going to Congress and and ... asking explicitly for a constitutional amendment this simply legally defines them as to factor public utilities and extends the first and Fourth Amendment to them that way they save money on policing content they don't have to do that unless it specifically illegal anymore or pornographic something like you know it's not the way things were so they can police that sort of content without having to police things that are merely offensive or kind of on the fringe of being offensive well and save them a lot of money you need a lot fewer moderators sites more constrained yeah you save millions wonderful number 2 they save money in the in the sense of their advertisers are going to flee the platform they're just going to be looking at how large the audiences to advertise 4 have targeted the audiences you know based on demographics are some they'll no longer fleet is some other Alton potentially all media platform ... because none of them will be censoring people beyond what you are either that the fact is there will be a hard cap on how censored content can be so that would be the maximum of what would be considered family friendly be roughly P. G. 13 or something like that you wouldn't have dumbed down content anywhere on the net because it would become a legal to create such a situation and the wonderful no less a specifically geared towards voting you know our our platforms only for little kids or something okay YouTube's not YouTube's only for adults it's totally different start Twitter's for adults to people who are you know above a certain I think it's like what is it 13 of 14 or so a yeah those if indeed those people that are old enough yet okay they can see someone smoking weed it doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna start doing stuff like that by preventing the tech firms from having to police content the government can also protect them from foreign Cup countries that are trying to lead on them to every time ... one has a bad day he shuts down to where every time murder one has a bad day tells Twitter take this picture down its unflattering or that you or the Chinese government says Hey we want this critical blog suppressed or something we shouldn't be doing that we should expect better of our tech firms within the United States these are US firms we should tell them to resist the temptation to bow before foreign governments and and orders we should also tell them there to resist the temptation to censor domestic content unless it's criminal in nature or or or pornographic or something something it's generally agreed upon to have its own platforms is something they're 0 sites Ringo for that sort of material ... as for general social media content general analysis general political discourse that's Monday ain't it doesn't matter if somebody objects subjectively finds it offensive you start censoring that content and pretty soon society will shift what's considered offensive will shift as a result and people who thought well censorship is great it's just being aimed at the French all of a sudden now you're part of the fringe on one or 2 the things you believe in and now you're censored how wonderful is that you just screwed yourself congradulations how short sighted and despicable you dumb you are see that's the problem even if you believe that the good the fringes it's currently envisioned should be suppressed you will eventually probably be part of that fringe look at how much society's changed over time from area to area it happens on a decade to decade basis it doesn't take 100 years it takes her a decade tops for to shift wildly on various issues things that are considered acceptable now were considered unacceptable 1020 years ago things that were considered unacceptable have become acceptable things that were considered acceptable have become unacceptable groups that would not have been considered fringe 20 years ago are now considered lunatics groups that are considered centrist now where the lunatics in the past that's the way that things go it's going to continue being that way till you really wanna kneecap the entire internet bring it into line with subjective morality that shifts at a whim I think it's a terrible idea I think it's a place for public discourse that should involve all parties and hopefully we're not suppressing fringe groups because then they become more fanatic it's what's always happened they'll develop their own language creole to get around censorship they'll develop ... their own sites of the veil of methods to hide their presence to become even more anonymous and pretty soon they become a very compact small very fanatic and potentially violent order that no longer experiences outside influence that could help to moderate that content that's what ends up happening congradulations you've just given rise to a bunch of violent militants they were just disenfranchised outsiders before now they're violent militants congradulations you just cause to school to get attacked or something like that I hope the legacy media feels happy about the fact that they're lending their voices to a situation in which that can happen it's happened before it's observable throughout human history their 0 examples of this occurring so congratulations to them congradulations to the short sighted people for having so little intellect that you think that censorship can actually be targeted against what you deem to be a friend and this society won't ever shift again that we're at the end of all history nothing ever changes every generation thinks that every generation is wrong it's only a matter of how long it takes for you yourself to be targeted by the same abilities that you've given some government or some tech firm to target those you disagree with now that's about all peace out //
"2017-08-20 16:58:41"
Gab, Hatreon, other Free Speech Sites Targeted by Web Giants
\\alright everyone who here likes free speech and free expression probably most of you including if you're on the left somewhere you probably see no problem with the basic idea see the problem is the big tech firms have begun to try to ... it destroyed their smaller competitors now the reason for doing this me to tell you another secret the reason they're doing this is economic because they realize that they're actually capable of competing for the same audience the time used for people using the platform and they're worried right now Facebook is worried about mines they clearly are Google probably is too because it's still probably wants to do the social media thing like plus that failed ... that's the reason Twitter is worried about gap they're worried because their stock is collapsing there user base is beginning to migrate away who's in a position to capitalize on this it's gap patriarch is worried about Hatry on I can assure you another crowdfunding platforms that cloud flares worried that somebody's gonna start competing with them go Daddy's worried all these older tech firms are worried because they've been stable for a long time some of them have Pete and begun to decline others are peaking now like Facebook ends and begun to slow down in growth YouTube's like the only ... the only exception is still rapidly growing the problem for you to visit insolvent Twitter I think is insolvent till I think they lose money which could be why their stock up keeps going down when they tried it latch on to the current moral panic and pretend that it's an argument of morality but there will leave what they're really saying is Hey people who are somewhere in the center of American in world politics who are or who are to the laughter song you should be using our service they're trying to create a false dichotomy here where it's about people on this on the lunatic fringe verses normal people it's a bandwagon appeal it's a logical fallacy that they're trying to use our needs and they don't have any sense of morality Facebook doesn't care what you say on their platform ultimately they have no moral goal in it their goal is money it becomes inconvenient for them when somebody starts saying offensive things on their platform because right now a lot of people are easily offended because as a moral panic going on free speech platforms therefore are rising up and they're gonna keep rising up for some time to come my time the moral panic ends they'll be ... they'll be far larger far more powerful ... at least some of them those that process ... I think that most of the groups that I myself have mentioned will probably be part of that crowd there will be others that fail ... of necessity will happen for instance Vimy takes advantage of the fact that you too busy alienated parts of its user base it's growing rapidly it's still far smaller than you too but as far as I know it's still solvent it certainly still growing ... it is less ... algorithmically distorted and it's openly antagonistic honestly be like they've taken jabs at you to before ... on those tokens and so while they're not a dedicated Altec platform but they are a competitor the others that are all tech mines is certainly Altec ... and competes directly now with Facebook it is growing ... it's like ... me you know years ago most people still use internet explorer and groups like Firefox eventually came along to exploit the fact that those that internet explorer had weaknesses and at first they were tiny people well that the ideal never catch on now half of those people are more people are using Firefox an edge certainly now Firefox of course is screwing itself in being supplanted by others to like brave water fox pale moon everything under the sun you've got a proliferation of services and firms that are dedicated towards freedom explicitly this does not mean that they sympathize with the all right it doesn't mean they sympathize with anything other than freedom itself that's a good thing as the moral panic ends people are going to look back at the big tech firms that are grandstanding morally right now and have a good laugh at them well it was funny people took these for profit corporations the use like Chinese slave labor seriously when they tried to make a moral argument these exploitation of corporations that have a good laugh about it and they'll begin does it to degrade they'll begin to cross some of them will persist like I think my opinion is that you too will process for a very long time I I don't think Google's going anywhere but it will it will have to transform itself it will have to probably temper the the moral panic side of things and eventually it'll get to a point as the paradigm reverses and they'll say okay enough is enough of the censorship stuff we've realized that it's better to have a public debate they'll come out now say that at some point will be good and by the way and you know we're a faith in the product restored that's a good thing ... on the capitalistic and till you're you're the expert acting free expression as long as it's not like inciting or something like that that's good there's nothing wrong with it's not any moral position to take its the only moral position to take if you're living in the U. S. pro freedom explicitly pro liberty a tree on ... is that people have made write ups about a single well this is the all right crowdfunding platform that's funny I use patriotic I'm no where near the all right ... I'm a libertarian the reason I'm using that is because I stopped having full faith in patriarch as a service because it looked like they were Elie it's not even so much ... they were dabbling in political bias it's not that it's not the central issue it's just part it the main issue is if they alienate enough of their users because people get worried and stop using the service will they remain solvent will they remain above water will be keep existing as a company or will they go bankrupt and then well the crowdfunding platform I was using went bankrupt like yes I'm screwed I have to find something else so I decided well in the case that happens in many use another service still already have a presence there are all already be raising money is there in lieu of ad revenue because of never taken it and saw be somewhere else just sort of make sense it just it's it's a pragmatic solution the situation why did I start using for our group on Facebook and Twitter it wasn't because I was specifically worried all you tube is going to collapse or something I need to build up my presence also it's because view tubes notifications why did I start using gab ultimately it's not that I'm worried about being censored on Twitter because I have few I I don't have anything out there enough to say to warrant being banned probably the reason I started using gab is because Twitter consistently loses money had is losing its audience might stop existing at some point I want to have another platform that I'm on that's comparative the same service that I'm Marty using in which I enjoy use mine's it's basically the new Facebook it is ultimately mines is a is a more coherent version of dumbed down post time lying there a Facebook as Zucker Berg continues to ram Facebook into the ground and up his ass there could come a time at which Facebook stops being a dynamic usable servicing goes the way of my space so I I'm figured well and I want something that's compare bill to it I want to learn how to use it and I want to build up a presence there because I don't know the Facebook still gonna be there in 510 years and as the moral panic when some of those big services probably will fall by the wayside the making of tactical air right now they're playing short term gain for long term pain they're doing the same thing that a lot of a lot of people in the satanic panic may TV shows about uber do spooky Dookie stuff in a devil worshippers and stuff and they fear mongers over over night after night they get great ratings when the moral panic ended their ratings decline to basically nothing and a lot of them went out of business they never recovered some of these people disgrace to the rest of their entire TV based career and had to start ... appearing else that they had to they rode wrote their memoir and ... you know you don't do you had to roll over there and get they became a dentist or something like that and now they do like podcasts and stuff but they don't have a major presence Bob Larson doesn't have a major social media presence Jerry Johnson doesn't have a major social media presence L. Billy Graham doesn't have a major social media presence at this point people forgot about it it's like a lost era because they decided they wanted to gobble up the money and the audience bike riding the moral panic of their time and once that panic was over it was like a it was like they set their boat out in a tidal pool when the tide was rising and they sailed around and had a great time in the tide went out they were left high and dry now they have to wait for the next moral panic the problem is that on the position to take advantage they're not that they can't so I would caution people if you are building Annette based presence and you're putting yourself out there making videos you're only post on Twitter a lot or you have an Instagram or some you need to think seriously about getting on all tech because it is the wave of the next stage of the internet it will necessarily it will continue to grow there's a huge vacuum right now being created by the demise of some big tech firms the mistakes that they're making in a moral sense the idea that we progress along a linear scale towards more and more moral leftism forever is totally wrong that that the far right makes this per ... stupid mistake till they say no we're moving to were marching towards communism people used to say that back in the sixties it never happened I would argue we move towards socialism in the physical sense were certainly but we were already there so it's not really an issue we are you where we're socialist nation now we've been a socialist nation for over 100 years what more need you now but that doesn't mean that the moral of the social side of it progresses in a linear direction for ever no we swung way way back to the right after that the Reagan era then we swung a little further left with Clinton than we've sold swung even further right with like W. or Herbert Walker you know that that post Herbert Walker clinics well under W. can you remember what it was like it was constant moral problems it never rose to the level of a full blown cultural panic even after the wake of 911 people are panicked about lego terrace terrace don't okay but it never became a full moral panic in my opinion it was more limited at the time it was also more solidified it was everybody was worried they had a legit reason they didn't over extend beyond that the Iraq war which did try to over extend very quickly became very pop ... unpopular which is a good thing by the way it's good that we're no longer we don't have a major presence in Iraq by the way if trump wants to screw his career Ali as do some more soldiers to Iraq at any given time that's all you would have to do people exist they often hunts the next bush already had several of them now we got a third bush or maybe a fourth or fifth depending on who you ask this moral panic will wane altech will get stronger and they're creating an alliance right now these these upstart firms are attempting to create of pro liberty alliance and they'll provide their own hosting and they'll provide you other services and goods and they will continue to grow and diversify and other companies will join them and pretty soon you're gonna see sort of the the older mainstream firms the smaller competitors in the bigger tech firms they'll be joining them because they'll realize where the parties at and it'll work in all decentralize the internet probably forever will be unrecognizable in 20 years the internet in 20 years assuming it hasn't been completely replaced by some other platform which I I don't know if that'll happen and that time scale I will look totally different it'll function differently it'll probably be a case of there'll be a Normie internet for people who don't mind being abused and then they'll be the internet of of everyone under you know 35 or 40 years old they'll be using something different and so it'll become a relic ... that the current internet even social media will become a relic of what it is ... currently now you to probably accepted I think Google has the ability to make that transition but they're gonna have the I mean they got to start doing that soon they got a not right the moral panic if they keep doing that they're going to lead to more competitors rising up they'll create a power vacuum and that's just some advice for these firms look people are no longer going to be worried about the whole white identity movement thing in 5 years it's gonna be it's gonna be like you know people are worried about sharks after jaws came out people were worried about ... Saddam Hussein ... it after 911 and stuff like that and and and then in time those who at the time were in the small minority proclaiming it not to really be as big a problem is everyone suggested who argued against the loss of liberty for groups even remember after 911 governments like we must strip liberty from these groups we must strip down privacy we must denigrate free speech to keep people safe what happens we all look back we have a good laugh the staff knows dom was dumb at the time it's done now ... and and what was left of that moral panic our social panic in that sense a post 911 what's left of that social panic is still problematic which is mass surveillance consulado doesn't keep us safe it's worthless it's dom and it'll be the same way this time the ACLU I think I would worry most about them starting to abandon certain groups that were nothing to represent you are you making a big mistake hugs and the backlash will be coming in a few years when people realize that not everyone that's ... protesting in tearing a gun is a Nazi you're gonna look bad bike by being compared that argument you do realize that right some of these chapters of the ACLU of started to say don't eat speech isn't free speech we should represent anyone who's offensive again it's a subjective term that you're using 10 years ago it could have been considered a quite offensive of someone argued for gay marriage I did at the time I was in the minority when I was arguing for a minority of the population agreed and now it's the majority at the time I was in like an outcast on that issue I can remember even on the internet we got a relatively younger degree of the population I can remember back in like early Facebook days not 2000 72 0 and those that hell hole of people who said all well know maybe civil unions maybe and that was sort of the centrist position that the I don't want to take sides position at the time was okay civil unions might be okay but you know screw the the you know meant marriages Christians traditional it's between a man and a woman I can remember when that ... little panic set in and ... as a few states started to legalize gay marriage I got more and more scared and then of course that this guy fall when it became legal nationwide now the sky didn't fall it's been legal nationwide for awhile now ... it hasn't because you know other than the bake the cake issue it hasn't really caused any problems I suppose ... and and that's an argument on on which I argued against the far right but I still supported their right to to say they didn't agree with traditional marriage I mean I disagree with them duh duh yeah I know I mean they are gay marriage rather I don't agree with them I have no problem with gay people being married ... but at the time that was an unpopular thing to say it was I think he can't remember that if it wasn't that long ago John I was already a young adult at the time we're not talking about each ... cities all tech firms are they they are in the right they are not neo Nazi sites you don't have to worry about that ... if I'm using it it's it's certainly not a dedicated white nationalist platform because they wouldn't like my presence there is not a white nationalist ... set up against just a free speech platform mines ... net Hatry on which I will try to give some advice here as one aside Hey tree on should change its name not because right now ikana takes all where hate filled site full of Nazis or something like it makes it makes the media's arguments for it it makes the big tech firms arguments for it by labeling yourself that so you should think about you know you get a different name for your site rebranded story I mean you can keep the same service you don't need to censor it anymore ... or anything like that but you should change the name of this at college call it free tree on or or something like that given a freedom connotation instead of the hate speech connotation you'll have more people using your site anyway because right now a lot of people probably avoid it because they see the title and then they see that that ... that ... what was it they're angling or whoever it was ... is using this site may assume that it's like it's full of Nazis or something now they're libertarians and progressives using it I'm not blaming you because your services just pro free speech we should change the name of the service in all honesty you should re brand yourself it's like minds think of mines very it's justice pro free speech and its title is just mines that are that doesn't have any political connotations you think of gap doesn't have any political comment ... connotation big heart makes it harder to make the argument that the site should be attacked directly I know the Hatry on had its protection removed arbitrarily not based on a whim based on the idea over sense of people on this platform gathered their offensive people on YouTube their offensive people on Facebook Twitter till I don't see anyone talking about how they should out loud slayer should abandon the sites or or whatever protection service that they use it's ... it's just a moral panic and it'll pass it'll pass folks of people like me or tell you it's a moral panic we're gonna be looked back on people won't be laughing at us in 5 years W. laughing at the all last they they'll laugh it like Nazis which people have been laughing out for a long time to be laughing a communist they'll be laughing at all the politicians using it as a a platform we gonna start censoring things will be given a good laugh at those people the probably unfortunately the probably laughing at the ACLU's response at some point the future tale which is regrettable because they do a good job generally but they won't be laughing at me pepper no be laughing with me because I'll be having a chuckle at the same time that's about all he set out //



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